How do we go about that?

We had our chance to elect candidates to the the legislature who would oppose this last November in the general elections. 33% of the voters in Oak Lawn, Evergreen Park, Palos Hills, Worth, Chciago Ridge, Orland Park and Palos Heights didn't even bother to vote. The rest either supported the 19th Ward Chicago Dem candidates who will vote to shift the costs to local suburban taxpayers, while leaving Chicago taxpayers off the hook.

We get the government and governance we deserve, Robert.

Agreed! And I know a district HS driver's ed/shop teacher who retired with more than $100K/year pension. How in the world is that salary (and the pension based on it) justified, especially for driver's ed & shop?? You've got to be kidding me!

Who are you? Get a life for crying out loud. Do you just sit around and read the patch and make comments. I would love to know your profession, income, or even your real name you poor excuse for a human. I'm guessing you hate yourself, so you just sling mud and everyone and everything.

River, stop acting like slime. If you have a cogent point to make, MAKE IT! If you're only here to make personal attacks, you must indeed be a human being devoid of reason or civility.

What you post in your pseudo "psychoanalysis" of others perhaps reflects your situation more than those you attempt to demean. When you post as you do, you only build support for those you victimize.

Please consider that the next time you post, if ever.

Hmmmm, River (fill-in-the-blank). Did we hIt too close to home, huh? Maybe you are acquainted with/related to these overpaid teachers/retirees or perhaps otherwise benefit from their largesse? Can't seem to explain your harsh diatribe any other way. "...methinks thou dost protest too much...." (Apols to William S.)

Dear Bob Busch,
Darn! And I was hoping for the Merchant of Venice!! LOL ;-) No, I don't dispute the difficulties of teaching, just that a suburban school system such as in OP poses few challenges similar to the battlefield-like conditions such as in the CPS. Ergo, what is the rationale for the inflated compensation packages here in suburbiaville (where our ACT and other scores actually are lagging! Go figure.) vs. in the trenches downtown? And even there.... the egos always get in the way, IMHO!!

http://www.familytaxpayers.org/ftf/ftf_salaries.php

State wide teachers salaries website. Cons HSD 230

The United States has fallen to "average" in international education rankings released by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, according to the AFP.
America has received scores around 500 on a scale that goes up to 1,000: 487 in math, 500 in reading and 502 in science.
The AFP reports,
The three-yearly OECD Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) report, which compares the knowledge and skills of 15-year-olds in 70 countries around the world, ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science and a below-average 25th for mathematics.

Citing concerns over the country's education performance compared to other nations, and the long-term impact of the shortcomings on the future economic viability of the country, the Obama Administration has pushed for comprehensive reforms during the president's time in office

http://www.edweek.org/ew/qc/2012/16src.h31.html

Illinois ranks 30th in education among states.

Educationally, not only is the U.S ranked 17th and lower, Illinois ranked 30th, anyone reading this article doesn't have a school in the top 50 state wide. I'm just unclear as to what our educators are trying to defend?

http://www.psk12.com/rating/USthreeRsphp/STATE_IL_level_High_CountyID_0_start_1.html

You all make me laugh. Fox news is looking for some new slanderous drama now that the election is over. Maybe you all, Mary, Laura, Bob should sign on. Wait the unemployment office probably can't get you a job there. LOL...keep it coming you basement bloggers. Have another snack and live your lonely lives preaching to each other. Adios losers.

River, you talk out of both sides of your mouth. Your own posts concede that teachers' salaries comprise the bulk of expenses in school district budgets, including the Lincolnway district. Recall this one? Adios, hypocrite!
River Smith
9:06 am on Friday, January 13, 2012
I"m an educator and I don't want to see any teachers get cut, but financial hardships are just that. Is all day kindergarten necessary. I guarantee that everyone who is posting here had half day kindergarten growing up and look at us, we are all literate adults making our way through society the best we can. If it is between closing a school and making kindergarten half day, I would choose the kindergarten thing. Yes it cuts teachers in half, but salaries are the greatest expense and it would half that. I know this is not going to be a popular post, but how many other districts in the area have full day kindergarten?

Laura,

Used to be teachers made low salary in return for good benefits and after the unions got involved it became low performance in return excessive salaries along with excessive benefits (i.e. retirement state's banruptcy).

Responding to River's insults is only responding to cry's for attention by a weak mind and a desperate person which is why I choose not to. Notice that River hasn't made any suggestions for improvement only cry's for money. Assuming there is an insult from river forthcoming you won't see a response.

Laura,

Just wanted to say that you are awesome. My after thought is....; Does anyone else get the irony of the fact that the person (River) who is supposed to be "one of our educators" , payed by us (the taxpayers) to look out for our children, is insulting, bullying and spitting in our faces? Go figure on the return on investment.

Everyone who reads this, please send it to a friends as this is what we are paying our educators for.

I'll take it a step further; What district does River work for. I'd like to move forward with a formal complaint.

Bye Bye River

Dear Laura

Go forth and teach.If you do it will be Henry V your quote from not Hamlet.

How about cutting ridiculous pensions and driving Illinois into 14 billion in debt.

i'm good with the fields, the education is terrible.

Bob, the talk right now is that the past underfunded obligations ($94 billion currently for TRS, plus another $15 billion borrowed to make contributions to the pension funds) would stay with the state. Only the state's obligation for matching contributions (currently about 9% of the teacher's salaries) would be added to the districts' current paltry 0.58% contributions. Fort a district like 230, that SHOULD mean an additional $6 million per year in expenses that should be shared by staff and taxpayers under the current tax revenues. As I show below, this can be done without tax increases if the district is willing to cut fat and unnecessary capital and operational expense

There are so many spelling and grammatical errors in your post that I cannot even begin to address them all. What makes it even sadder is that your comments are about "these dumb ppl." (sic) If you received a decent education, demonstrate it by using correct spelling and grammar. If you did not, then you need to remedy your lack of knowledge by pursuing more education. Then you can become a more successful contributor to society instead of simply a critic.

The teachers union is in bed with the politicians. Pass it on....

Dear Bob
The final form of any pension solution is yet to be decided. At last count I believe there are at least six reform bills in various stages of passage in Springfield.
I will not dispute your figures,however remember that most us will have three school districts to support.High school grammar school and community college.
so can we use your figures times three?

Bob, for years when my kids were in 118 I did benchmarking of spending with other districts that had less resources but whose students had superior academic outcomes. Palos 118 is, and has been, one of the most inefficient and patronage driven districts out there. I could give the same kind of assessment for 118 as I did for 230, but, to be prefectly honest, the people paying the bills don't care. Those who do don't bother to vote.

Once the shift is done in Springfield, that'll be the time to propose the options that are in the best interests of children and taxpayers, but will be igniored by the Boards in favor of shifting the hardship to the taxpayers instead of their political cronies and the upper income staff.

MVCC is really a patronage cesspool that wastes a fortune on capital and maintenance work. Did you hear they're building a new, unnecessary, $35 million building while increasing tuition several times the rate of inflation?

When MVCC was campaigning for their $90 million addition and renovation , they heavily relied on local contractors for their six figure campaign.

Afterwards, the contractors were losing out on competitive bids, so they went to the Board and crooked local pols like Senator Ed Maloney to pass legislation that would allow JCs to ignore the lowest qualifeid bidders and give contracts at 5% higher than the lowest bids to "local" contractors.

Remember how they claimed they needed to expand because they were trurning away over 350 qualified helath care program students per year? It turned out that the problem was a union deal that limited healthcare classes to 16 students. They also did a lousy job of selecting students. Classes of 16 were typically down to 9 students by the end of the semester. With that kind of attrition, the administration ws clearly doing a poor job of accepting the students with the best chance of success.

I could go on and on about how employess at MVCC were coerced and intimidated into doing political work, but I think the point is made.

In 230, 118 and MVCC the district can absorb the cost shift if they cut patronage staffing and waste. No doubt the Boards will try to protect their political "goodies" and try to shift the burden to the taxpayers. The battle for Springfield in this matter is lost. The battle for our local districts is not.

Have you decided where the districts should draw the line on where they should put the burden yet, Bob?

In 1977 I ran for Palos Township Trustee we lost the election in such a way that it has turned me off to politics.We were called the PIP party.We ran against the combined Democratic and Republican parties.We got 10% of the 22% who voted.
Palos voters are so apathetic they deserve that they get.
Once in a while people have asked me to run for various local school
boards but 41 years teaching in Chicago High Schools
has given me a unique perspective on education that would make me very unpopular with local educators, add in voter apathy and you can see why
have always said Hell No.

And why give tax breaks to people who decide to have children. They use more services so they should pay more. That's the kind of socialism that is unfair to the rest of society.

Yea.. You go Charvo... Those $1.00 one dollar off coupons at the movies for those kids are a joke... They are watching the same movie as you and I... And how about the free soup at the veterans hall for Sr's... Damn socialists bastards...

How about the teachers/unions stop the decline in education and quit asking for more money and defending the union.

If the pay for performance they would be getting very little.

Educate but not entertain. Big chunks of the school budget goes for gyms, fields, uniforms, coaches, etc. Athletics is not education. So as a childless person, I have the honor of paying higher state and federal taxes than those parents whose children take advantage of all these amenities, while the parents take advantage of deductions and credits. I have no problem paying for the education of society's children, I just wish parents would assume more of the financial burden for their choice to procreate.

Agreed but the education provided is terrible at best. Have you looked at where we rank in the world and where we rank in the states. Our educational leaders should be embarrased but instead they are protecting pay and pension.

Taxpayer, you misinterpret the Illinois constitution. What it says is the the state has the responsibiilty to be the "primary source" of funding for public education. This has been interpreted by the courts to mean that it needs to enact statutes under the state's authority to provide a mechanism for funding schools. Case law has consistently held that the state has met this responsibility by enacting a statute allowing school districts to levy real estate taxes, a power not granted directly by the state constitution.

Phil Kadner has been lying about this to his readers for years, claiming that the state is not meeting its "obligation" by not writing checks to schools for half of what they decide to overspend, completely ignoring that all school real estate taxes are technically "provided by the state".

I hope this sets the record straight for you.

Right on track. Look at Karen lewis of the Chicago Teachers union going on strike against Emanuel during an Obama election? Who sold out and is providing no accountability fo pay increase!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How about Karen Lewis, aka Roz from Monsters Inc!!! Check it out.

That represents our educational leadership in a nutshell!!!!

Gee, did you ever wonder why the State is 14 billion in debt? The politicians depend upon the unions and evryone else is gettin screwed.

Bob, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the state pays a fixed rate for each student. I understand that any salary expense above this amount is on the taxpayers. e.g., if you're paying a Drivers Ed instructor $120K for nine months as they do for every teacher in 230 who has a master +30 and has 20 years experience, it's a certainty that the state stipend won't cover everything. interestingly enough, state law doesn't require that you be a certified HS teacher to teach Drivers Ed. They could save a fortune outsourcing this program. The fact is that in 230 the Drivers Ed program is so bad that over half the students opt out and take private drivers ed at their own expense (about $350).

One otherlittle known fact about the Drivers Ed program in 230. Summer school for this is a goldmine for staff. Over the summer, 230 pays hourly, and they set up the system so that staff are ensured of overtime pay throughoput the summer. This really fattens pension payouts when teachers near retirement.

FYI, I looked into this a few years ago when the district wanted to increase studnet fees for Drivers Ed. The cost to the district was about $500 per student during the summer, about $200 more than the cost to privatize would be. The district charged $100 of that in extra fees for taking it over the summer, even thought the cost was less then than in the school year ($800 per class then).

Just another case of a greedy, unfair administration and Board caring more about bloating revenues for themselves rather than being fair to students and familes!

Driver's ed is mandated by the state to be taught in high schools, which is why the state reimburses. They also mandate that you teach behind the wheel and the amount that the state reimburses does not cover the costs of the district, trust me...it's a loss for the districts. Let the kids go take it private b/c it is NOT cheaper, but it WILL save the districts money. It does not pay for itself.

Yep, a travesty for mediocre/inferior outcomes/results, in too many cases. Thanks for posting that link....

As an indicator of the wasteful staffing practices in 230, 2012 report cards reveal that we have one administrator for every 160 students. State average is about 203 students per adminstrator. That means that we're overstaffed in administrators in 230 by about 27%, even though many districts with large schools like ours only have ne admin per 280 students. That means we have about 53 administrators in 230, or about 18 per school! Wow! At an average cost of about $140K per admisntrator including benefits, we could save about $3.4 MILLION per year by "right sizing" admisntration. This doesn't even include all the unnecessary support staff for these excess administrators..

Bob, I don't know your last name but I'd definitely vote for you if I did!!!